Fraser Short from Keystone Hospitality explains how the 2am lockout has affected Cargo bar, why the rules are unfair and offers some alternative ways to deal with alcohol-related violence.

Interview by Amy Spanton

According to the latest data released by the NSW Police Force’s Computerised Operational Policing System (COPS) many of the original 48 licensed venues who have been subjected to Nathan Rees 2am lockout rules (see box) since December 2008 are no longer in the Top 48.

The data which measures violent incidents that have occurred on licensed premises from the period November 2008 to April 2009 shows that only 27 of the original Top 48 are still on the list. Furthermore 73 new hotels with 14 or more assaults would be added if they are to be judged on the same basis as the original Top 48.

We took the opportunity to sit down with Fraser Short, Director of Keystone Hospitality (Bungalow 8, theloft, Cargo Bar, Sugarmill, Kit & Kaboodle & Gazebo Wine Garden) who has been dealing with the lockout rules for the last six months with Cargo Bar at King Street Wharf. Here’s what he had to say.

4bars: Since December 1 last year, one of your venues, Cargo Bar has been subject to the conditions of Premier Rees 2am Lockout, as have 48 other hotels in NSW. How has this affected your business?

Fraser: Without any consultation whatsoever with the hotels our business was locked out. In fact, the first we heard about the Rees Government plans was in the Sydney Morning Herald! For us that meant that patrons were simply turned away.

When this ‘data’ was being collected, we were working hand in hand with the government and local police to address problems that the local community were facing controlling the flow of traffic from the charter boats. This is clearly not our problem but as responsible operators we engaged with local law enforcement to help put strategies in place to deal with intoxicated charter boat patrons which resulted in our demise. Out of the alleged 27 assaults that landed us on the Top 48 list, 12 were refusals to patrons that had never visited our venue - to be clear, they were never ever our customers - we were simply declining them entry. They didn’t like it so they argued with us or the police.

Further to that, four of our incidents were removals from inside the venue. These were patrons that didn’t like being asked to leave. But again, we were trying to simply comply.

All the other statistics on our business were totally false. One of the incidents was and ‘alleged assault’ which was called in to a command in North Sydney 10 days after the alleged incident occurred. The licensee was never questioned and the police never queried the allegation. Truth be known, the complainant needed a police report for insurance purposes and now we have been affected!

Anyone can do the maths on 2am lockouts. When you are a late night bar and your patrons can not gain entry after 2 - it affects you. And frankly, 10 minute time-outs do not present a solution. This is just craziness. It in fact encourages the patrons to drink against the clock.

Based on the most recent data, Cargo is not even in the Top 100 venues. Are you frustrated that you are still being penalised?

Frustrated is one way to describe the feeling. Violence within venues works for no one. Business is in fact less successful. No one benefits. Not the community, the individual or the business owner. It really is a lose, lose situation. I know the Sydney city operators have been working hard for five or six years now to curb that sort of behaviour in and around the city and in fact generally across the state. This idea that you can simply blame a group of large hotels or create a list of HOT SPOTS really says more about the lack of understanding of the real issue than it does about the operators.

This is a cultural thing that is determined by a society and the community at large - not by one business. Cargo is no more to blame or at fault than the cruise ships; or no more to blame than the government for allowing alcohol to be sold; or the kids on the streets whose parents have permitted aggressive behaviour at home; or a police officer that did not arrest the individual for aggressive behaviour. The real fact is that as a society we are allowing this type of behaviour.

The only ones being punished are these 48 businesses. Most of these are family-owned pubs with hospitality professionals that have worked hard to try to help the government and the police solve the issue.

Cargo would have never been on the 48 if the premier had just asked someone to check the data and its original source. No one even asked for submissions as to why we should have not been on the list.

We don’t even make the top 100 now. And these stats are the stats for the period even before these measures where handed out! In other words the current data for the period was available right at the time the decision was made by the premier we would have never been affected? As you can see It’s disappointing stuff.

One of the criticisms of this policy is that it has or will prevent venues co-operating with or involving the police. Do you think the new rules have stopped venues reporting violent incidents to the police?

As the government has given no indication as to how they are going to “measure the performance” of anyone who sells liquor one would have to assume that it has created a very big divide between all regulatory authorities and operators. Operators are running scared - and so they should be! I’d suggest that this policy has undone about five years of very hard work by many, many liquor accords and police commands.

Keystone is committed to working with the government and all the other operators I speak to are as well. In fact we have welcomed every meeting the government would attend.

Would you be surprised if the government suggested that the reduced number of violent incidents associated with Cargo were as a result of these new measures?

Not at all - I’m sure there will be some spin on the data. But I really wish everyone could move past the “trying to look good stage” and start working towards real commitment as a community to dealing with the issues and to resolving the fundamentals of the problem at hand.

Nominating 50 businesses - then letting the Casino off - the state’s worst offender - is a strange sign of commitment! What a lot of people don’t realise is that the music festivals record double the number of incidents in one day that the worst of the 48 hotels recorded in a whole year. How is the government addressing this?

You mentioned previously that you think the government should be trying to make good and sustainable policy. What sort of recommendations would you be making to the Rees government about late night drinking policy?

Something the AHA regularly mentions and we endorse is the need for better education in relation to drinking and the effect of alcohol (or other illicit drugs) on an individual.

However, the one single thing that would bring this issue to its knees almost overnight is personal responsibility. Look at the success this type of policy has had on drink driving in the last 20 years. At the moment, as soon as a patron steps foot on a licensed venue, we are responsible for them. They can hit their girlfriend or take illegal drugs and it becomes the operator’s issue. In Cargo’s situation we were responsible for them even when they weren’t in our premises - only because they wanted to come in. How can this be?

If they choose to drink in parks and public places, then it seems that no-one is responsible for them - not even themselves.

While we do everything possible in terms of RSA, security and general patron management, there has to be some responsibility put on to and taken by the patron who chooses to go out, drink to excess and then behave in an antisocial manner. Like drink driving, we made it an offence to drink and drive, followed up with high visibility policing/ random breath tests to make people think twice about it, followed by fines or loss of licence if caught.

We need to look at something similar in terms of late night drinking policies. Putting it in perspective, the majority of people go out and have a good night out sensibly - it’s the minority that ruin it for the rest of us, so why aren’t we targeting them, and leaving the rest of the community to go out and enjoy themselves.

The other clear factor we need is flags - what antiquated policy wishes to shut business down? Why punish an operator once they are a problem - why not have a series of flags that say “hey you running that place - you might need to change what’s happening in your venue?”  School teachers solved this issue many, many moons ago!

How do you see this situation panning out over the next couple of months?

At the moment, in this current economic environment, we need certainty. All we are asking of Government is to give us a way off the list. As mentioned above, we are not even in the Top 100 let alone the Top 48 and we currently feel that the Government has left as there to rot.

The Government also needs a fairer way to single out the most violent venues.  I say venues as I think we all agree it’s not just Hotels - it’s also clubs, nightclubs, small bars and restaurants.

In our case, we’re on the list because of a high level of incidents at our front door where staff are doing their job in turning away intoxicated or argumentative people who have come from elsewhere - this went down as a black mark against us, which is really no reflection of our operations because the person hasn’t even been in the venue.

Unfortunately now the Police have also refused to discuss the data with us, so we had no ability to discuss any of the figures or stats even though they were in many cases blatantly wrong.

It would be nice to see The Government give venues a way off the list and look at a better measure of warning venues that might be facing some problems - then penalising those venues which are actually having the problems ongoing.

We seem to be going through a very conservative era which is very anti-alcohol and obsessed with this trend of booze-fuelled violence. Do you think it is all a media beat up or do you think things are pretty much the same as they were, say nine years ago when Cargo first opened?

To be honest I know the situation at cargo is 100 times better in 2007, 2008 and 2009 than it was in 2001 - regardless of the stats. I have stood on that door for nine years. What has changed is three main things:

a.      Today you commonly see the media fuelling the media! When people like a story the media like to run with it and keep playing the same old tune over and over. Look at “Chk chk boom.” Tell me its not selling newspapers!

b.      The rise of technology. All police stations are now linked with computers and this is only new in the last few years. So the stats have to have grown as the way the police and regulatory authority’s record stats or are able to record stats has become more efficient and available. Also Individuals have mobile phone cameras, Facebook, Twitter, and email through the mediums available nowadays; an incident can be public knowledge within about 20 seconds of it occurring.

c.       Lastly I think every one who is engaged in this debate should get real. as sad as it makes me the kids of today aren’t just drinking alcohol. In fact, I’m lead to believe we’re drinking less alcohol today than we were 9 years ago!  What appears to have changed is the cocktail of ‘recreational’ drugs out there that people are consuming. Not just kids - normal every day people - doctors are handing the stuff out and street dealers seem to be more present than ever - These drugs affect people’s behaviour in a far different way than having too many drinks! The term ‘booze-fuelled’ violence is misleading and completely disregards the massive illicit drug culture that seems to also exist in our community.

On a more positive note, can you tell us some of the exciting things that are going on with Keystone at the moment?

Sure there’s a few things we’re working on. One is “The Winery by Gazebo” which will be a sexy wine bar and lounge in the heart of Surry Hills. A very Boho inspired mismatch of all things. We will have that open in late September